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When you make an edit on a wiki, the wiki sends a little message to your IntComm:PersonalLogServer, (plog.)
That way, you can make edits on multiple wiki, and other people can see what you’re doing.
This is part of “Online Presence” (IntComm:ActivityAwareness) - think about how instant messaging services let you see who’s online, in real time. Personal logs of your wiki edits would be just one piece of your “Online Presence”- as well, there would be public emails sent, what web page you’re looking at, etc., etc.,.
Having experimented with the Personal Log Server on this wiki quite a bit, it becomes apparent to me that we need some way to rate changes.
This could be a simple intuitive rating, (“Minor”-“Medium”-“Major”,) it could be a highly sophisticated metadata system (with notes on subject, context, importance of change, mood while writing, whatever.) ReifiedChanges would be useful for a sophisticated system, as it would allow one to properly track the evolution of documents over time. --BrianTempleton
But some form of rating is important, because otherwise, you have a bunch of “fixed spelling, grammar” mixed in with posts you actually care about.
(See also: RatedChanges. (IdeasToPlace #111.)
Is this really part of a PersonalPing “module”? Why not part of the underlying (wiki) engine? --BillSeitz
This is a part of the underlying wiki engine. – LionKimbro 2004-05-20
Or, you might just want to make it so that the user says whether they want to ping for the change, or not.
In the wiki, have the “submit” button have a little box under it, that says, “Report to my personal log server.”
The user can say whether they want it to default checked or un-checked.
That way, they only report what they care about. And, they may feel a little more comfortable, regarding privacy and what not.
Presently, as far as I know, my work on the Personal Log Server is the only implementation of this feature.
| status | wiki engines |
|---|---|
| Implemented | MoinMoin hack |
| Developing | - |
| Intend to Develop | - |
| Considering | - |
| Rejected | - |
I (LionKimbro) am the only one working on this, as far as I know. I’m trying to get people excited about it.
If you’d like to try it out, participate in the PlogDev:TaoRiverPlogExperiment. If you just want to see the results, visit my page: LionKimbro, and look for the “Plog” entry. (Also look at the corresponding page code, by viewing the page's code.) If I’ve made any edits in the last 24 hours to a [wiki:TaoRiver/FrontPage TaoRiver wiki,] you’ll see it listed there.
One of the critical things seems to be incorporating the ability to read the PlogDev:PersonalLogServer into
SebPaquet: You may be interested in XFire - http://www.corante.com/many/archives/2004/04/28/xfire_and_persistent_presence.php#4571
MarioSalzer: Your idea is to always get a copy of every word that you ever entered on any www page out there - including any discussion forum, personal GuestBook, Wikis and workalikes? This connects nicely to the Atom thing, Bayle mentioned recently.
LionKimbro: I’m not so sure we’re after a copy of every word, though that’s not a bad idea.
I meant- two ideas.
Online presence - having up-to-the-minute notice of what people are doing- that they want to share.
And the second is “PersonalPing”- So, you write on a wiki page somewhere, and people can look at your blog and see that you wrote on that wiki page. We’re trying it locally here, with the PlogDev:TaoRiverPlogExperiment. We just don’t have a blog yet that reads the PlogDev:PersonalLogServer.
The PersonalPing is a WikiEngine feature. The WikiEngine sends a note to your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer, telling it that you made an edit.
PersonalPing is a particular sort of “Online Presence” technology. Jabber clients that say when you are sitting at the keyboard or not are another kind.
Ideally, I’d like it so that- if you beat the Balrog in Moria, that pings your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer, and people visiting your web page could see “Oh, Mario just beat the Balrog.” Or, if you just posted to some forum somewhere, they could see: “Oh, Mario just posted in this forum. Let’s see what that’s all about.”
Note that, you’re in control of what your blog posts from your plog, or even what’s reported to your plog in the first place. You can operate in “stealth” mode, if you like. This is just something to help people see what you’re up to, and get involved as well, if they’d like to. It’s CommunityWiki:SocialSoftware.
Is this Personal Log Server just a database that contains information on what the user has done ? And say when you edit a wiki page you submit to the PLog Server, post a message on a forum, but something on a website… etc ? (Am I following this right?) --JamesMills
MarioSalzer: I think I’ve grasped it: it is about having a personal global internet changelog - something like a RSS feed that says at least when and where I made a WWW contribution (and it only additionally hold the contents of what one added). Well then this is not only about online presence (what Jabber, IRC and ICQ already do quite well), but about online activitiy. And we shouldn’t even discuss this as WikiTechnology, if it applied to so much more WWW installations and concepts.
technical/political note: People like me won’t implement it on a free-registration and user profile basis, the whole idea requires a new HTTP request header field - like “X-Login:” or “X-POST-Log: http://…” and standardization on either XML-RPC or Atom.
For JamesMills: Yes. The PlogDev:PersonalLogServer is just a log of info about what you’ve done in different places. That’s all. Now, your Blog server software can go look at your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer, and pull out the information about what you’ve been doing. But, there are many more possibilities than just PlogDev:BlogsReflectingPlogs. For example, if you had an IRC CommunityWiki:ChannelWhiteboard, with icons for the participants, it could also show what you are doing. So, for instance, you look at a web page. Your web browser sends a note to your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer. Your CommunityWiki:ChannelWhiteboard polls your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer, (or perhaps it’s subscribed for notifications,) and says, “LionKimbro’s just looked at such-and-such web page.”
For Mario: Yes, you have it. It’s an internet-wide changelog, attached to your person.
The PlogDev:PersonalLogServer is not a wiki thing. But the PersonalPing, in the context of WikiFeatures, is a wiki thing. The WikiEngine must support pinging your PlogDev:PersonalLogServer, if it is to work.
I don’t understand your technical/political note. I’ve just used XML-RPC. If you check your UserPreferences, you’ll see a line for Plog. If you look at PlogDev:TaoRiverPlogExperiment, you’ll see how you can try it out here.
LionKimbro, I think I could implemented the client side of this in PWiki2 and then developer several clients to access this data (if none already exist). Sounds fairly easy from my point of view… --JamesMills
Awesome! There are two things that a program can do to talk with Plog:
You might want to look at PlogDev:PlogTalk, and make a corresponding PHP api, or something like that.
Feel free to use my running plog server.
One different architecture for this would be a WebProxy, wouldn’t it? Which could extend to logging/showing everything you *read*, not just what you write. And not every site you hit would need to do anything. --BillSeitz
No, because this is about notifying other people of what you write. In particular, immediately after you write it. This is necessarily a push technology, because you could be writing anywhere. This isn’t really about keeping a log of your writings (though it’s easy to extend to that,) nor is it about keeping a log of what you read (though you could also notify people of what you read, as you read it.)
This is about notification, not archival. – LionKimbro 2004-05-13
But it could be both, couldn’t it? And the proxy could probably distinguish writes (POST) from reads (GET), and report them to your personal page separately… Or am I missing something? --BillSeitz
Correct me if I’m understanding wrong.
What I am saying is this: You post to the wiki, and the wiki sends a note to your plog.
What you are saying is this: You post to the wiki, and simultaneously send a note to your plog.
I prefer to let the wiki post to the plog. This is because the wiki has more intelligence that it can give to the plog than the web browser. If a day comes when web browsers have more intelligence about activity than the wiki, then I would give the responsibility to ping to the web browser.
If I hit “edit this page” on a wiki, the wiki can tell my plog, “You have just started editing a page.” Unless my web browser is specially modified, or hyper-intelligent, it cannot deduce the action.
Ultimately, I believe we will have both intelligent web browsers, and an intelligent web. At this point, we can favor the browser. However, that day is far off. (5 years?) In the meantime, we have PersonalPing.
We should move this kind of discussion to Int``Comm’s IntComm:PersonalLogServer page. We’re getting beyond the territory of wiki features.
– LionKimbro 2004-05-20
PlogDev:PersonalLogServer (“plog”) - an individual’s trusted log server, that stores notes about their activities in different places online
Security is an issue; Right now, it’s easy to spoof people, making it look like they are doing things that they aren’t really doing.
WikiPassport (IdeasToPlace #24)